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Grimlock ♥ Ultra Magnus

I'm a well read grad student who's bluntly honest about all things, although I try to be most honest about myself.   

Currently reading

Jurassic Park
Micheal Crichton
Progress: 222/480pages
All New Fathom Vol. 5
John Ercek, Erick Arciniega, Mark Roslan, Alex Konat, Beth Sotelo, David Wohl
Pocket Apocalypse
Seanan McGuire
Progress: 54%
Apex Magazine Issue 99
Allison Mills, Rebecca Roanhorse, Pamela Rentz, Mari Kurisato, Raymond Sturgis, Jason Sizemore, Daniel Heath Justice
Ann Leckie
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Transformers Robots in Disguise: Where Crown City Comes to Life
Caroline Rowlands
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Avengers: Absolute Vision - Book Two (Avengers (1963-1996))
Brian Garvey, Jimmy Akin, Roger Stern, Steve Ditko, Carmine Infantino, Al Milgrom, Prentice Hall
Progress: 98/360pages
Deadpool Classic Vol. 20: Ultimate Deadpool
Kelly Doudna, Mark Bagley, Brian Michael Bendis
Altered Carbon
Richard K. Morgan
Progress: 67/516pages
Batman (2016-) #40
Stephen King, Jordie Bellaire, Joëlle Jones

The slippery slope that is the 'not all nazis' argument

I'm so sorry.   My thoughts are too complex to fight this in one forty characters at a time.  I'm posting this here to post it on my timeline as a link.


First of all, I know I spell nazi with a lower case n.   I refuse to give nazis the benefit of the capital letter; it feels like using the upper case n will make them feel like it legitimizes them, or may give them some 'group' and thus redeemable status.   Plus, I know it's not much time or effort to use a capital letter, but nazis aren't even worth that.  I do the lower case n, I suspect I'll get called on it eventually, but it's not a mistake.  I do it on purpose.  


Secondly, hey, look, guys!   DC is making a cartoon with nazi heroes!   Or I should say alternate versions of their heroes that are nazis. 



Me before this: I would do anything to have me some more Red Tornado.


Me after this: No, I most definitely would not.  I did not mean this DC.   I realize I should have been more explicit, but I figured Secret Empire was a learning moment.  


Not even Tornado as a freedom fighter makes me want to see this.   I'm going to ignore the 'this is for kiiiids' arguments.   Many cartoons are not, so I'm not sure if this will be either.  


But I explained, no, thank you, almost my whole family on one side was killed by nazis.  I got into a conversation with a gentleman who was fair, and it ended up with Injustice showing the making of a tyrant without actually using an actual even that caused trauma. It ended up with me making this claim. 



And of the things you can say about nazis, all nazis are evil seems like, y'know, a not so radical thing to say.   I mean, genocide was just one of the many evils they championed.   


Except I forgot about that chick who was championing Secret Empire, thinks that Trump as president means we should turn out heroes into nazis to make a point, and dismissed any Jew who was still upset and protective of Cap given his history, and of the storyline in general and the use of Wanda and Erik, two Jewish mutants who were apparently coerced into Hydra.   Hydra who is, at best, a nazi ally and at worst nazis.   (I've yet to see how Cap having to kill Red Skull to take over Hydra makes them not nazis before Cap took over.   Or after.   Because Red Skull was historical in Hitler's inner circle.)


Of course she likes this show.   And honestly, with no sarcasm, more power to her.   She likes them?   She likes this concept.   It's awesome for her, then, that it's being made.   Even though I didn't like her, I respected her right to like these things. 


Except that she apparently, ah, took exception to my 'all nazis are evil' stance. 




Read more about Rabe here.


So here's the thing.   He did great things.   But he also voluntarily, very willingly, identified with nazis.   In a way, it makes it worse.   So if John Rabe is a 'good nazi' where do we draw the line?   He didn't actively take part in genocide, nor did he condone it, but he liked something enough about the party to go 'yay nazis.'   Is there a tipping point?   I argue no.   All nazis are bad.   There is only one redemption: vehemently disavowing nazism.   There is only one excuse to join the nazi, or neo-nazi party, in real life or fiction - and that is infiltration to save innocents, or damage the party greatly from the inside.   (In which case you never really believed in nazism, were disgusted by having to parrot their propaganda, and would quickly, and vehemently, disavow them after you were done.)  By even wearing their propaganda, by spouting it, you are legitimizing it and encouraging others who will very possibly buy into everything - including the genocide - to join the party.   And it's not like Rabe didn't know about the genocide, but some other parts of nazism - and I cannot fathom what it might be - appealed to him enough to say, 'well, I'm okay enough with others committing genocide to join this party.'   A person who did amazing things can also be a horrible human being.   And quite frankly, ignoring the genocide makes him a horrible person. 


Of course, if we have to go to the tipping point, and argue that Rabe was a good person for this, even though he claimed to be a nazi, one would have to assume that nazi or nothing were his only options.   He had them.   He watched Hitler create a party and he could have taken the other crap he liked from nazism and set aside the genocide and created a new party based on that.   (Which still sounds fucking awful, but whatever.)


By the way, note that my concerns are specifically Jewish.   Glad that Rabe helped some Chinese people, but didn't look like he lifted a hand to help the Jews or other minorities, so... he was good to one people and as far as I can tell was all into genocide for the others.   What a great, great person!


And I have to bring up that this woman gave me two choices: you read Secret Empire, and like it, or you're scared of minorities fighting fascism.   To which I say have at it minorities.   Go ahead.   But why would this woman ignore the Jewish trauma, and pit them against other minorities?   Marvel could have used one of their many other white, male heroes and done this, but, no, they used Cap.  They used the one that would hurt so many of the Jewish population so much.  


And then I found this: 



More context guys: JVP is trying to delegitimize Israel.   The ADL's page on JVP.   JVP likes the BDS, and pushes it constantly.   Guess who else likes the BDS against Israel?   Hamas.   See what JVP protesters say about Hamas here.   Hamas, who has a charter with an openly stated desire to destroy Israel, isn't that bad.   Israel is the real problem.  (Although women and the LGBT community are much safer in Israel than in Gaza.)


Since she supports JVP, the 'not all nazis' argument?  I can't help but think she sympathizes with terrorists of all sorts.   Because, guess what?   You can't pick and choose.  When you throw in with the nazis, when you show support for them, you legitimize that to the world.   When you throw in with people who think Hamas, a terrorist group who celebrates and financially rewards those who murder Jews, aren't the real problem in Gaza, then you become a terrorist sympathizer.   




These are, by the way, my tweets to her.   So, I had mentioned my grandfather's family being killed by the nazis in that thread.   Did she think John Rabe was going to change my mind?  


If 'not all nazis' is the hill you want to die on, go ahead, be my guest.   If you want to pull out self-hating Jews who don't think Hamas is that bad, feel free to retweet them to your heart's content.   But when you do both, I can only assume that you are a nazi, hamas, and  anyone who wants to destroy Israel and the Jews sympathizer.   


Anti-semitism is alive and quite well and the fact that I just had the 'not all nazis' argument here proves that fact quite nicely.   How chic that she loves all minorities except Jews.   How nice to fall in line and start hating them since it's in right now.   How easy it makes to sweep away their concerns.   


But fuck this bullshit.  I'm no longer having the all nazis are evil argument.   That goes without saying.   If you disagree, if you think that something makes up for self-identifying as a nazi, I am going to automatically assume you're a nazi sympathizer.   Like as soon as you say it, and you're going to have to work hard to earn my trust again.